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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 7, 2010 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

That's what I'm refering to is the digital versions of the tapes. I don't actually have any tapes.

I don't have Samplitude either. I have Ardour though :)

This post was modified by stealyourwife on 2010-03-07 20:22:10

This post was modified by stealyourwife on 2010-03-07 20:24:03

This post was modified by stealyourwife on 2010-03-07 20:24:25

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 7, 2010 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

I first posted about PaceMaker on Dec 14, 2007. I forgot to mention them. My bad...

NEW (Dec 2009)! New version of PaceMaker plug-in v2.3 released - download it here!

PaceMaker is a plug-in module for WinAmp player that controls how the music sounds as it's playing. That is, PaceMaker is able to...

PaceMaker main window

Ok, sounds rather nice but why would anyone wish to do that?
  • Someone may find listening to Elvis the chipmunk entertaining.
  • Cyber caffeine: Listening to punk rock with some 20 % additional tempo is roughly equivalent to drinking a full pot of coffee.
  • In addition, it's turned out that there are also applications for PaceMaker:
    • Slower music tempo eases practicing music
    • Change the music key to match the singer's voice (karaoke, singing practice)
    • Dancers can change the music tempo suitable for dancing
    • Adjust music key instead of retuning instrument for each song
    • Listen 78 RPM vinyl singles with a usual 33/45 RPM disc player
    • Transcribe tunes
    • Write down dictations
Calvin Dancing

Hmm... fair enough. Where can I get it?

Here! Just go to download page.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Mar 7, 2010 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

thanks for the Pacemaker link Monte...looks great for transcribing, back in the day some guys employed multi speed R>R's for the same reason, but now we don't have to listen to the slower speed down an octave (muddy...)

other issue i have is with channel orientation, not every uploader seems to ensure the keyboards are in the right channel, although i'm sure a toggle probably already exists at my end to correct that too (then again, suppose not everyone cares...)

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 7, 2010 6:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

We have really great fundamental remastering audio features to work with in Samplitude:
-- switch channels
-- invert phase both channels
-- invert phase left channel only
-- invert phase right channel only
-- process the selected effect on left channel only
-- process the selected effect on right channel only

I've watched music composers doing their transcriptions from tapes in real-time, using Finale s/w. Finale is supposedly the best music composition s/w for desktop publishing, going way back for many years.

My violinist friend would listen to various tape clips, then play out the score on his fiddle. Sometimes his playback devices had variable pitch controls. Then once he had the notes playing correctly on his fiddle, he cranked out the compositions in Finale s/w. From there he would print them out for handouts and his music books. For his music students, he mastered audio CD tracks containing the same music content he scored and published with Finale. Of course, Finale also plays these compositions on his PC.

So, for all you musicians and composers out there, you need to marry your great music playing skills with your knowledge of Samplitude and Finale s/w. This is for mastering, composing, and publishing your stuff. Then, when you got that down, you can master the art of creating your own books, CDs, DVDs, streaming content, websites, and social networking sites. Not to mention, you must become a MIDI expert, and learn how to do your own sequencing. You will need to get all the super-duper VSTs setup and working in Samplitude and Finale.

Everytime MicroSoft does a Windows upgrade, your computer's Audio Devices will stop working reliably, and you're screwed. Or, you can hold your breathe and wait forever for the open source people to port or write some good-working s/w versions of this stuff for Linux. Good luck!

Don't you musicians sometimes miss the good old days, when all you needed to do was to know how to fucking play your axe?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Mar 8, 2010 4:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

thanks for that info as well Monte! but i disagree that any of this is compulsory

no doubt there are advantages, the disadvantage to creating notation from an independent audio source via software>printer is that a musician loses out on the opportunity to exercise the "ear"...nothing replaces the experience of struggling to interpret something complex w/o being spoon fed the info, something a musician must learn to do if they are to perform creative (improv) live music

some will note that it is great to be able to instantly transpose song notation into other keys, here again, the ability to transpose a tune into all twelve keys on the fly is also an invaluable exercise in learning song progressions

it also depends on the task at hand, some musicians aren't all that interested in copying another musician note for note, 90% of what i'm interested in notating is only the melody and the chord progression, every time i play a tune i'm searching for new voicings, melodic variations, passages, rhythms and alternate chord changes (based on initial interpretations) the "lead sheet" is only a map i refer to a couple of times until i understand the initial progression, and then it is only used to enable other musicians to do the same (and form their own conclusions...)

obviously someone looking to compose a symphony might have an entirely different view towards music notation software...even so, i know some composers who still choose the fountain pen because it allows direct mind>notation w/o the encumbrance of an instrument or keyboard in between...there is also add-on software that can scan rough draft hand copied notation, recognize and convert to whatever...

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 8, 2010 9:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

SPOT ON! I agree 110%. Years of being on the road without a computer to download tabs on a whim is good incentive to develop an ear and I wouldnt trade those years/ears for all the ease and technology in the world. Even now, with a computer, I'll figure out the chords and melody's by ear just to keep on my toes.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Mar 9, 2010 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

guess i'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to technology

in the 70's it was the "Music Minus One" records that gave you an LP with a primo rhythm section comping jazz changes, a booklet with a transcribed Charlie Parker solo or whatever...in the 90's it was "Band In A Box"...

learning to play with musicians that are literally not listening to you (?)


everyone has different ways of learning, for me, playing four to the bar jazz bass lines helps to create an internal pulse as well as sufficiently outlining the changes so i can have something internal to rely on (an improvised melody is just a more complex and rhythmically free bass line) the idea being that the bass line becomes internalized over time and takes on a life of it's own, eventually strong enough in the mind to permit far out improvisation on an external instrument w/o losing the form

hopefully, the omnipresent bass and for that matter any other instrument well imagined in a musician's mind are all listening

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 9, 2010 2:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

I agree about "an improvised melody is just a more complex and rhythmically free bass line" but a bass line doesn't have to be "less" complex imo. Phil Lesh, Victor Wooten and Les Claypool I think would agree. What's important is that you dont lose your root note and that no matter how far you wander you get back "home" in time. Those crucial moments that bring your improving back to where it makes sense. In my opinion that's all intuition and without that intuitiveness you won't succeed at improv.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Mar 10, 2010 3:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

i'm only suggesting a four to the bar bass line as a starting exercise for non bass player musicians to familiarize themselves with complex changes and forms, a practical/working concept to put theory to use...non of what i stated was meant to preclude possibilities for bassists nor limit the possibilities of non bassists to play or imagine more complex bass lines (or any of the other instruments) once beyond the rudimentary stages (learning to walk before...)

not sure what you mean by "intuition" (?) suppose there might be a knack to it but can't say it is my experience that improvisers are born with meter skills and awareness of phrasing fully developed

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 10, 2010 6:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

intuition of what notes need to be played at what time to make it sound like it makes sense...i didn't realize you were talking about four notes to a measure, literally. i started out playing smoke on the water and iron man so i guess i skipped that lesson.

I thought we were talking about ear training or something.

nevermind

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 7, 2010 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

I dont even have M$ Windows on my machine. I run Linux. Ardour is free opensource and professional grade too, it should work. It's just a matter of knowing what key they usually do any given song in and adjust accordingly, It's not rocket appliances.

If somebody already started a project like this I'd appreciate a link though. I might be able to help

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 7, 2010 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

Let me put it another way for you. With Samplitude s/w, I can calculate or convert any algorithm you can possibly wish for. Anyone can do this in Samplitude, if you are unable to do this in Ardour. You pretty much need only know ONE of these error or correction variables, and give it to me. I can calculate the correction variable you are unable to express. Then you can run the fix in Ardour? I'm not a musician. This is simple stuff.

Here's the variables Samplitude can tackle:

Time factor change down to .001 resolution
Pitch (Half steps, down to .01 or a hundredth of a half step)
Time units (old length, new length, down to .001 resolution or milliseconds)
Beats per minute (old BPM, new BPM, down to .001 or a thousandth of a BPM)

Resampling mode does pitch and time change together, fyi.

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 7, 2010 3:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

Nice. I see also that that Samplitude runs between $500 and $1000. Not sure if the simple task I want to perform warrants a purchase of that magnitude, but i'll keep it in mind. I'm gonna see what I can do with Ardour first. I really, more than anything, just want to get some of these shows to where i can jam along with em without having to retune the guitar.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 7, 2010 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

I recommend finding a used desktop box (Dell, HP, Gateway, for example) running Win XP - costing maybe $500, including a monitor. Start over from scratch and install XP from your original installation CD. You can locate the vendor's websites for all these models, and get all the original drivers easily installed correctly. You're good-to-go.

In addition to using Samplitude and Trader's Little Helper, I'm using Dreamweaver, Photoshop, CorelDraw, FileZilla, uTorrent, zTree, and WinAmp. I don't have a problem using professional s/w for educational use. I've just told you everything. Some of this stuff is freeware.

10 months ago in this thread, I openly discussed some of the simple math behind converting tape speed % error rate (or, Time Factor change) to BPM error rate, and then fixing it in Samplitude correctly.

with a +3.3% tape speed error, how to synch up the new source speed to the correct speed, in this example:
120 BPM + 3.3% = 123.96 BPM = correct speed rate to increase

according to this source, here is the math to do pitch correction vs speed correction vs beats per minute

+5.94% increase in pitch is one half step - we need +3.3% increase in pitch to match up
3.3 / 5.94 = 55.5% of one half step pitch increase = correct pitch rate to increase

Take a look at under the hood - inside Samplitude ver 7. Notice how it converted the parameters for me when I used the Resampling mode.

the Resampling / Time Stretching / Pitch Shifting module
samplitude-pitch-speed.jpg

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Poster: CharlieMiller Date: Mar 7, 2010 11:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

I've been running samplitude since version 2001. I am now running the latest version 11.03 and I love it. Although, I still do my pitch correction with adobe audition v3.0 since it is much easier with the setting joe b. jones sends me.

This post was modified by CharlieMiller on 2010-03-08 07:10:50

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 8, 2010 9:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune'

I'd kinda rather chew my arm off rather than go back to using Windows.

If you get bored someday you might try dyne:bolic linux. http://www.dynebolic.org It's a live cd iso you just download and burn it, reboot and you're using a Linux distribution geared toward audio/video editing, loaded with every decent open source application to date.

And it's all free :)

Linux gets a bad rap for its learning curve but everybody that sticks with it ends up loving it.

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Poster: high flow Date: Mar 7, 2010 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Are these tapes 'in tune' ?? // Paging Charlie Miller

Seems like CMiller has done extensive work with Joe B. Jones on pitch corrections.

The most obvious cause would be reel speed during recording. I say that, but I'm no taper or technician.

It would be interesting to hear about the pitch correction process from Mr Miller.

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